Questions and Answers # 1 Bro. Lee Vayle - November 25, 1983 In my recollection Bro. Branham categorically said, verse 31 was the Jews. So that takes care of that. The Rapture does come before the tribulation, this is the specific statement of Bro. Branham, and I think you've heard me many times say that I was one so well inured with the understanding of men as such as Bro. Branham, and a man that he taught which was named Aaron and different ones who believed the Rapture would be after the Great Tribulation, that I was well able in my own mine to refute everything the prophet ever said upon the subject. So, I went to Bro. Branham directly in order to plead my case and have him help me to get my mind straightened out. The more we talked, the more it got dark in the room because I could not follow him. And realizing the dangerous ground I was on and how he was feeling in his heart toward me, loving me and couldn't get through to me, I said, "Bro. Branham, would you mind answering just one more question?" He said, "Certainly, Bro. Vayle, what is it?" I said, "Bro. Branham, is it Thus Saith the Lord the Bride will not go through the tribulation?" He said, "Bro. Vayle, it is." I said, "Thank you, I believe you, I will find it in Scripture." I did. Now, that the exact categorical answer you're looking for. 2. Now let's look at verse 30. And I will quote you a very, very obscure thing that Bro. Branham said. I do not know where it is found, but believe me, I know what I'm talking about. [Matthew 24:] (30) …then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming… First of all, there is a sign, and then there is a coming, and this is to the Jews. Bro. Branham categorically said, and I can't tell where he said it, but you can find it yourselves. He said, "The Lord Jesus Christ appears in a symbol to the Jews." So therefore, we have first of all the sign appearing, and then we have Him appearing. That's the best I can tell you from the exact quote the prophet gave. If I have obscured the thing even more, I'm sorry, but that's just the way things are. I'm not the prophet. I don't have the infallible answer. But, believe me, the Bride has already gone, the tribulation must be almost over (that is the three and a half years) and distinctly he said He does appear in a symbol. 3. Now, I got my own thoughts and they're very, very ridiculous I'm sure, but just in case you're interested, in case you're not, I'll say it anyway. Could it be? Could it be? And the Jews remember had the Pillar of Fire, could it be that the great Pillar of Fire comes down? I don't know. Or, could it be something those two witnesses do? It could be. But could it be, that the Pillar of Fire descends? And they said, "That's the way it always was hallelujah." And then out stepped the man with nail-prints. I don't, I'm very romantic. So, I'm romanticizing. I don't know if that's the answer. But, I do know this: He will appear in a symbol. This could be where Bro. Branham took it. He will show His hands. This is to the Jews. The Gentiles will be Raptured, that is 'Thus Saith the Lord', quoting William Branham. And I stand here with my hand raised, knowing there is a God in heaven, this Bible opened before me, I have quoted the prophet from my own dilemma, and I'm trying to help you. 4. I don't want to stage Jack, or upstage, because that's not my policy. But, on the very fact that of what Roger said and the question came up. The question really in my mind, the brother wants to know what really happened. Why in '33? Why in '63? Why in '65? Why this, or why that? Now, I want to give you a little quote Bro. Branham made, that perhaps that's gone over everybody's head, but to me it's one of the most beautiful quotes that I've ever heard in my life. Bro. Branham said, "That when Jesus Christ was here on earth, He did His healing ministry, and His gracious ministry in order to win favor with the people." A man currying favor, and they should have been loving and adoring Him. Now, apply that to fact that Jesus Christ in the form of the Spirit must come to the Gentiles exactly as He came in flesh, He must come and curry favor. See. Remember, that Jesus Christ took training. He did, He grew in stature and favor of God and man. What He said confused everybody. A Baptist preacher, one God, literally astounded people. But in '64, he got the commission. In '65, we see Jesus Christ totally revealed. So, if you wonder why '33, why '63, why this and why that, just remember, Alpha is Omega, and you are as intelligent as any of us, simply read what happened from the day that Jesus was born, until the time the thing expired. Go to the prophet right now, the whole thing is right before you, and it's the Light. 5. [Question:] [ "Would Bro. Vayle comment in particular why we are not to look at the Sixth Seal chronologically as to tribulation being, the Bride is sealed." Well, first of all, let's understand the word 'chronology'. You get a thing called a 'chronograph' which is a watch, very definite type of a clock, that's supposed to be in perfect order, that all other clocks take their times from. So, chronology has to do with one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. And if you're going to look the Seals were in chronology, then there is no such thing as the Fifth Seal having come into existence. Or the Sixth Seal being in existence, and not even the Seventh, because Bro. Branham categorically said we're under the Fourth. Now, four is deliverance. Now, we're going to get out of here under the Fourth Seal. Now, the Fifth Seal has been going on perhaps even before the Fourth Seal started, in the sense that, is it not possible that those elect Jews ever since the time of the great dispersion under Titus, those real, real Jews that they're not under the altar, the Fifth Seal? 6. Now, Bro. Branham made the heavy identification as under the Communist and Nazi persecution, which we certainly go along with, because that's the time when the two hundred thousand horsemen were released at the Euphrates River, which is under the Sixth Seal. Now, he said, "The Sixth Seal officially broke in March of '64." But let's face it, he only got that, because he knew what was under the Seventh Seal. Because the Seventh Seal is Revelation 10:1-7, and as I read last night, and I'm going to read It again here. Concerning that Spirit that comes into the Church in the Book of Ephesians taken from Daniel's Seventieth Week, Bro. Branham said, "The Spirit of wisdom comes into the Church to make known to the Church by the revelational Spirit." Not by William Branham. The Holy Spirit didn't come into the Church and say, "William Branham now you tell them." The Holy Spirit actually gave His Own revelation, but used a man's voice. See, watch his language, is lousy to the world, but oh man, it's specific, marvelous to us. Because you see, we're not of the world. We don't live on Limburger cheese. All due respect to those that like it. Spirit of wisdom comes into the Church to make known to the Church by the revelation of the Holy Spirit (that was my little joke with a friend of mine) bringing the Church in and revealing what day we're living in. Just the same as Gabriel came to Daniel, the Holy Spirit comes to the Church in the last day to reveal these great deep secret things. Now, you know categorically It's Revelation 10:7, where the secret things come out. 7. Now, if the Seventh Seal has not broken, then the secret things and the deep things we're talking about are not revealed and are not in motion. Because, they've got to be in motion. Now remember, the Seventh Seal takes us into the Millennium. The ushering in, and if it takes us in then, and takes up plumb down to the White Throne and past It, which exactly what Bro. Branham said shot us way out beyond time even; then the Seventh Seal is already going on. But, the Sixth Seal has broken, and the Fifth Seal is there so there's no chronology. You see what I'm saying? I wonder. Now, I don't want to hurt anybody's feeling, but you know…look, now again, I don’t want to be rough on anybody, but how many times do you have to hear it? Now, I know you feel hurt about that. But, how many times? If you understand language, as I believe I understand a bit of it, chronology means something. It's not concurrent, it is one succeeding another. Although concurrency might be allowed in when you talk of chronology. But, when we're talking this subject, we're talking one is followed by two, three comes next, four comes next, five comes next, six comes next, and seven comes next. But, a prophet stood up and said we're under the Fourth Seal, and we make our exit under it. And yet he said the Fifth Seal has taken place, and the Sixth Seal broke, and this is the Seventh. I can't go on hurting anybody's feeling on this, see. I even know the man talking to me right here. So, we're going to get this nailed down. Get it nailed down once and for all. Because, that's exactly what it is. We are under the Seventh Seal. That's one of the biggest troubles we have right today in this Message, is that Seventh Seal broken? 8. I got a letter from Germany the other day and he said, "Now, Bro. Vayle, I respect you, I believe you're a teacher." But, he was going to let me know that he was so much greater. Well, not doubt he is. If I'm a hum-bug, he's a bigger hum-bug. [laughter] Because, he said, "You say, we're under the Seventh Seal." We are! What are you under? You were under number four and didn't even know it. How many here knew were under number four? Let's see the smart boys. Who got all the answers. No smart boys? Well listen to dumbo then. Dumbo according to the prophet. The Fourth Seal takes a Bride out of here. Am I right? I believe I'm right. The same prophet said Hitler killed the Jews after releasing of the two hundred thousand horses at the River Euphrates. Well, did it, or did it not? "Oh well, Bro. Branham was just…you know…" No he wasn't, he was telling the truth. So the Fifth Seal's revealed it's been going on. The Sixth Seal opened in March '64 with the earthquake on the West Coast, right or wrong? Is the Sixth Seal on? All right, the Seventh is Revelation 10:1-10. Did it happened? What's going on? I hope that answers. I hope that answers. Is that all of them? Oh, you ended on a mean note. [laughter] Yeah, this is the most rotten trick you ever pulled on me. 9. When I first started this study not in desperation, but, because of what a prophet said, now believe me, I'm not going to lie to you, I believe that William Branham meant it when he said, "They do not know the difference between the Appearing and the Coming." And having been so thoroughly brutalized by my own background of fundamentalism to have not even one clue that the prophet was telling us that the baptism with the Holy Ghost was the rebirth, having already said in one place the rebirth takes place by the baptism with the Holy Ghost. I knew that there was something wrong with me and not with the prophet, and that is a categorical statement, not of humility, but simple truth. What in the world was he talking about, it had to be in the Bible. Because he couldn't say anything but the Bible. Because he said, "Just think how wonderful the same Pillar of Fire that brought the Words of Paul, is here revealing It." 10. So, if he was here giving us the revelation through that correct interpretation, and Bro. Branham was just a voice, it would mean what he said, "the Spirit of wisdom comes to the Church, let's the Church know the hour it's in, and revels the deep secrets." Then, somewhere, somehow William Branham in Twentieth Century Americanese, was giving us this Word that was already in its original perfect form predating to the time of Paul. And I said it's got to be somewhere, I'll go back and look at the meaning of those words again. And looking at the meaning of the word I found what became my answer to the question: was William Branham actually God? Was it truth that nobody had the real Holy Ghost? And I found what I believe was my answer and might be yours, but that's up to you, because look, I'm not your boss, I'm not your mentor, I'm not responsible to give you something in the sense that you're obligated to take it, or anything like that. And I saw in that word 'Parousia', that word 'Presence', and of course the Jehovah Witnesses had already believed that they had come to the understanding of it way back in about 1876, and then later they amended it in about 1914 on Russell's, (I think was the original) and amended by Rutherford. Now, to many people this would say, "well you see, it was the wrong doctrine then, it's bound to be a wrong one now. Then where does you Rapture doctrine go that was wrong back in the eighteen hundreds? See, let's not be idiots, see? It's time to have the "wisdom of a serpent, and be harmless as doves." [Mt 10:16] I have it a little mixed up I guess. But I don't think that any of you are too far ahead of me. 11. Now, that word began to jell, because he said, "He's Appeared amongst us in signs and wonders for the last several years." He told us of His Appearing amongst us. And this is what became my understanding of the prophet's revelation. I began looking at the Scripture to see the various words and I came up with 'Parousia', meaning 'Presence'. The 'apokalupsis' meaning revelation. The apokalipto(?) meaning 'to reveal'. The 'phaneroo' meaning to 'appear'. Which is to manifest in its true character, 'epiphanea' which is a 'brightness'. And the more I studied I came to this conclusion, that every one of these words starts here on earth, and they will end up way down the line, and they'll still be in progress. Now, the question came up: is there a difference between the unveiling and the revelation? In my estimation it is this: Bro. Branham said the revelation (and I'm not denying anything the brother said, I'm just trying to make it a little clearer based on the words of the Bible) that Bro. Branham said exactly what Scofield and what other men said, that the word 'apokalupsis', or the revelation of Jesus Christ was as a man who had formed a statue and had veiled it with curtains, and then at the right time had pulled the cord, the curtain fell back and there was the statuary. 12. Then, someone would say, "Well, that's very good, it's certainly unveiled." See? That was Jesus appearing in signs and wonders. As Jesus said in John 15:24, "If I had not done the works that no other man did, they had not sinned. But now, they both seen and hated both Me and My Father." And Jesus said, "If you can't believe what I'm saying, go back to those works again, and you know nobody but God could do them." That should stop you. But you see, it was an unveiling, but it wasn't a true revelation. And I'll tell you why. Because the word 'phaneroo' means to 'manifest in its true character'. So therefore, we didn't just have a revelation, Christ unveiled before us, but we saw Him identified in His absolute true character. So therefore, if anybody runs afoul in this day, he has got to come into judgment my brother, my sister. Don't you understand we're at a cross-road, a crisis, it's crucial. It's too late to change your mind. Some of you are still sitting around wondering about it. Look, I don't want to be disrespect for anybody's feeling, but I've said for years we've become crystallized. What would I do with what I've got today, if I've got anything? Not trying to be smart and take upon myself something the prophet's have and somebody else doesn't, but I'm going to tell you whether you know it or not, you are exactly where the apostles were. When Jesus came forth, "eat my flesh, and drink my blood." Now, still Bro. Branham said, "why that's vampire, that's it." 13. Let me tell you, let's go a little further. Let's not kid ourselves. There's something else that maybe Bro. Branham didn't mention. I could be wrong, there's nothing to it. But you know, I like to swat flies. And you get those flies, (you know) they get in the cracks and they come out in the winter when it's hot in your house and they get on the walls and they're a bit groggy, and I hate them, because they're the kind that fall in your stew. [laughter] Now listen, I take my swatter and I'm not near those flies and I see them bristle. They know that somebody is there to hurt them. Now, why did those Jews bristle? "Eat my flesh, and drink my blood." they knew when the blood was shed of the sacrifice, they ate the flesh, and they bristled not knowing what He said, but knowing everything they thought was going to tumble down. They were bristling. "Eat my flesh and drink my blood," they said they got to hit it. "Vampire, what's this nonsense? What do you do? You gnaw off a leg. Later on they said they'd gnawed his body and all. Now, people turned on Him, the seventy left Him, and the twelve stood there and said, "Uh?" Now, don't feel bad. John the Baptist said, "Hey, that's the One, amen, glory, that's the One. Ah, that's the One." They threw him in prison, "Hey," he said, "Go down and ask Him if He was the one?" [laughter] I ain't no John the Baptist kid. You think bald enough guy standup with the assured voice, he said it right. I want home last night, I went to bed, I couldn't sleep, so I just trembled and go to pieces. What if I said wrong? What if I was too tough? What if I tore somebody up instead of helping him? I'm still completely under. One more preaching will finish me. I'm not John the Baptist, but John the Baptist went haywire, so Lee Vayle ain't got no problems. Paul the apostle said, "Oh," he said, "that Pillar of Fire I met Him, He identified Himself, took me down for three years." He said, "Hey, what if I did preach wrong after fourteen years, I'll go up and see those boys." 14. All right, look, we're at the place today where we're crystallized. I believe today that there isn't one of us can change from what we really believe. Where would I go? Look kid, it's not that I'm ashamed to say, "hey, I'm wrong." I'd be mighty embarrassed. But, at one time I didn't believe the Sixth Seal was opened. Because, I figured the Sixth Seal was every bit was the three and a half years. If I was to teach for a while the Sixth Seal wasn't open, and I was referring to that part, especially that wasn't opened, so I hadn't even entered my mind that the prophet had said It was opened with that earthquake place. Where? In America. That shattered Billy Graham to know the thing went plumb around the world. Yep! Billy Graham was shattered. I went by a river in America here where two men were rowing in a boat. They weren't rowing after the earthquake. They were on gravel. I think that was in Louisiana, I'm not positive. I went by and somebody showed me the place. Now look, we're crystallized in this extent: what would you do if this is wrong? And I'm not talking about Presence. I'm talking about really anything you believe. Now, you can deny Presence, and say, "Well, I've known He's been here for two thousand years. I've been knowing He's here for twenty nine years." And I say, "Just a minute, that sounds like the Amish, they invented God, little black caps and crazy doilies." "You got the Holy Ghost, that means He's here, because you got the Holy Ghost?" Hogwash, He's been here two thousand years. In fact He's been here six thousand years. He's been here for six trillion years. He's been here forever. …?... do what you want. I don't fuss with anybody. Let's just leave it the way it is, let's not be idiots. 15. I'm going to tell you one thing: I don't care where you're going in your thinking and in your heart, and your dedication, I don't believe there's one of you here able to change. I could be wrong. I can be wrong. Because, I'm not an authority. But, I don't know where I'd go. And Jesus said, "Will you boys leave me?" He said… They said… "Well," He said, (just romanticizing,) "you could go back to them." They said, "Hold it, we came out of them. Why do you think we came out? To go back? Oh, ho, ho, ho, no, no." How can I go back to Pentecost? I can't go back to Pentecost. I never did like it. [laughter] I don't lie to you, God is my judge, I'm not lying. The night I believed I received the Holy Ghost was in October 31, in 1933 and the snow was falling and the old fashion lights were there, and the snow made that light like it's going plumb to heaven. And I went, and I said, "Oh, thank you God for filling me with the Holy Ghost, but now I'm one of them." Jack, I don't lie to you. Bob, I don't lie, I wouldn't lie behind the sacred desk, something in my heart said that's wonderful boy inside. But, you better watch there, there's something…I abuse myself, I hated myself, I excoriated myself, I cursed myself, what is wrong with me? There was nothing wrong! They were wrong. They were wrong. That's right, they're still wrong. And I left Pentecost, Pentecost left me. I got a double dose of two great men. Old F.F. Bosworth clobbered me senseless, or insensible, I was already senseless. He didn't have to do that. [laughter] He clobbered me insensible. He took every tongue's evidence out of me. I was like Paul Cain's mother, she said, "For years, (she said) I went to the Full Gossip people." [laughter] And she kept on talking, she said, "You know, (she said) I think I must be one of them tongues people." But, I just have to…in you we see that that's wrong there, the thing is all gone, but we are crystallized. and this is the thing of course that does bother, because I am too harsh, and I am too strong of what I believe, I've become very adamant, perhaps not militant, only under certain conditions. But, everyone of you has a right to your own thinking, to your own understanding. And I doubt very much that there'll be any of you go anywhere except in the confirmation you are already confirmed in, that you'll keep on going. 16. I have this to say about what I have placed my faith in, and I would not lie to you, because there is no sense in lying, because this is the hour when everything gets manifested, and you one day will see who the true Lee Vayle is. Right or wrong, dead or alive, or somewhere. And what if formed in my heart and my mind, if I just listen to that Voice of God through the prophet. There is only One I can behold and that is Him Who is that Logos, Who is here in the printed form in this Book, but is here in the Spirit form. Who is in our midst now, and we because we are born of His Life, we're acknowledging Him. It's come to the place now where I don't care about anything really. And this is a limited expression, so please do not judge it as it sounds, because it is still limited, I'm still human. I am in a certain way, and I know you are all with me in the faith of Abraham, that it doesn't matter anymore what looks out there, it doesn't matter. If the prophet said you don't care anymore how you act, or how you… And you say, "how act, you see, you're a legalist." Drop dead, you're gone anyway. Are you trying to act like devils? Are you ripping up people? Are you snorting heroin? Are you dogs? Are you monsters? You say, "No, I'm trying." I'm trying too. So, it's not how you act, unless you are a reprobate. For as a child of God there's no perfection on this side of the Resurrection. And if we would judge ourselves, we wouldn't be judged. And there is a High Priest helping you. 17. So, I don't care anymore too much about Lee Vayle and what he does, because he ain't going to make it on his own anyway. But He gave me a promise. For the first time I can stand still and look at that promise and I know I am part of it. And you can't beat it out of me, you can't siphon it within me. I can't do it for you, you can't do it for me. No way. But, I want to tell you, as I said before, and I'm not lying, I can sit and look out a window, perhaps I'm fantasying in my own spirit, I could be dead wrong, I could be a nut. And maybe I'm one of those nuts that keeps the machinery together, I hope so, I don't know. With Abraham I see that Pyramidal City rising out of the earth, Who's builder and maker is God, and I know, that I know, that I know. He doesn't have one thing to do with Lee Vayle. Uh-uh. What he was isn't going to be. It has to do with Him Who made that promise, fully identified and manifested, the curtain pulled back and Him revealed completely in true character. And it says, when you see Him there, there's no way you ain't going to be changed, because you see Him as He is. 18. Now, argument isn't going to get it out of me. Just make me argue all the more and that's stupid. Mary may simply get me to invite some of my mafia friends to take care of you. [laughter] I'm just letting you know why I try. It's a one to one. I believe He's here. The same One that said, "After six days He taketh Peter, James and John a part and beareth them up a high mountain, and He took them in His arms and went up with Him." I believe that same One that was here in flesh is here right now, to take you and me in His arms and take us up. And I'm not going to say, He's not here, because, it's been thoroughly manifested that He is here. Elijah has come and gone, and that Great One is increasing. And you can do what you want, now let's get that flat. You do what you want. You say, "Lee, you're fighting again." You bet your sweet life. You do what you want. I'm not doing what I want, or what He wants. By faith, He's going to do what He wants to me, and He's doing it. And I'm going to get out of here. And I don't have any promise to die, and I could be dead five minutes for now, or the next minute. Seventy years don't mean a thing anymore. Because, the Word of the hour is, "Because He lives, I shall live also," then proves He's alive amongst us and He's going to take us. But, that's what it's all about. Here I am preaching, have a nice day. The Lord bless you, you're nice people, I love you. Always giving me a chance to sweat my points out. [End of tape] Question and Answers # 1 (7083B) - Page PAGE 1